[TR] 2016.07.15-16 Karinis perversmas Turkijoje

[Haski]

http://rokiskis.popo.lt/2016/07/16/ivykiai-turkijoje/

Apie Turkiją ir šį tą daugiau

[senasnamas]

mums labai sunku suvokti, kariniai perversmai Turkijoje visad reiškė demokratiją

http://rokiskis.popo.lt/2016/07/16/ivykiai-turkijoje/

Vakarų šalių lyderiai mano kitaip

Žinote, kaip vykdavo protestai prieš Mustafa Kemal Ataturk? Ogi taip, kad būrys nuprotėjusių islamistų išvesdavo į gatves minią žmonių, o tada jie imdavo elementariai žudyti visus kareivius ir ypač karininkus, kuriuos tik rasdavo. Žudynės būdavo klaikios, su lavonų išniekinimais, galvų kapojimais, jų movimais ant kuolų ir taip toliau.

[Haski]

Nes vakarai turėjo kitokią patirtį. Daugma atveju karinė chunta, karinė diktatūra atnešdavo blogį žmonėms. Turkijos atvejis kitoks, tik gaila kad niekas nesidomi istorija, iš jos galima daug pasimokyt...

[Globalus]

Ech, zlugo... o taip daug vilciu teike, kad pavyks. Ziauriai gaila, nes dabar diktatorius netik opozicija nusienaus, bet ir isvalys visa kariuomene... putkino draugelis valdys iki gyvenimo galo dabar

Tikrai gaila. Šiandien gimė Islamic Republic of Turkey

putkino draugelis valdys iki gyvenimo galo dabar

Ką aš čia perskaičiau?

[J.U.]

Vakarų šalių lyderiai mano kitaip

Ką jie iš viso gali manyti, kai absoliučiai nesiorientuoja situacijoje. Jei kuris ir orientuojasi, tai gyvena šios minutės interesais, o toliau kad ir tvanas. Nėra rimtos strategijos. Rusija tuo ir stipri, kad turi imperinę strategiją dar nuo carizmo laikų ir nuosekliai jos laikosi. O tokius kvailelius kaip Kery durnina kasdien.

[senasnamas]

JAV priversta oficialiai teisintis

JAV valstybės sekretorius Johnas Kerry kategoriškai paneigė teiginius, kad Vašingtonas galimai susijęs su Turkijoje bandyti įvykdyti perversmu, praneša agentūra AFP.

Skaitykite daugiau: http://www.delfi.lt/news/daily/world....d?id=71825586

[ViR2]

Sulaikyti kariskiai verciami ziureti i sultono nuotrauka:

Turkey's coup may have failed – but history shows it won’t be long before another one succeeds
Recep Tayyip Erdogan had it coming. The Turkish army was never going to remain compliant while the man who would recreate the Ottoman Empire turned his neighbours into enemies and his country into a mockery of itself. But it would be a grave mistake to assume two things: that the putting down of a military coup is a momentary matter after which the Turkish army will remain obedient to its sultan; and to regard at least 161 deaths and more than 2,839 detained in isolation from the collapse of the nation-states of the Middle East.
The warning signs were there for Erdogan – and the West – to see, if only they had recalled the experience of Pakistan. Shamelessly used by the Americans to funnel missiles, guns and cash to the “mujahedin” who were fighting the Russians, Pakistan – another “bit” chopped off an empire (the Indian one) turned into a failed state, its cities torn apart with massive bombs, its own corrupt army and intelligence service cooperating with Russia’s enemies – including the Taliban – and then infiltrated by Islamists who would eventually threaten the state itself.
When Turkey began playing the same role for the US in Syria – sending weapons to the insurgents, its corrupt intelligence service cooperating with the Islamists, fighting the state power in Syria – it, too, took the path of a failed state, its cities torn apart by massive bombs, its countryside infiltrated by the Islamists. The only difference is that Turkey also relaunched a war on its Kurds in the south-east of the country where parts of Diyabakir are now as devastated as large areas of Homs or Aleppo. Too late did Erdogan realise the cost of the role he had chosen for his country. It’s one thing to say sorry to Putin and patch up relations with Benjamin Netanyahu; but when you can no longer trust your army, there are more serious matters to concentrate on.
Two thousand or so arrests are quite a coup for Erdogan – rather larger, in fact, than the coup the army planned for him. But they must be just a few of the thousands of men in the Turkish officer corps who believe the Sultan of Istanbul is destroying his country. It’s not just a case of reckoning the degree of horror which Nato and the EU will have felt at these events. The real question will be the degree to which his (momentary) success will embolden Erdogan to undertake more trials, imprison more journalists, close down more newspapers, kill more Kurds and, for that matter, go on denying the 1915 Armenian genocide.

For outsiders, it’s sometimes difficult to understand the degree of fear and almost racist disgust with which Turkey regards any form of Kurdish militancy; America, Russia, Europe – the West in general – has so desomaticised the word “terrorist” that we fail to comprehend the extent to which Turks call the Kurds “terrorists” and see them as a danger to the very existence of the Turkish state; which is just how they saw the Armenians in the First World War. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk may have been a good old secular autocrat admired even by Adolf Hitler, but his struggle to unify Turkey was caused by the very factions which have always haunted the Turkish heartland – along with dark (and rational) suspicions about the plotting of Western powers against the state.
The Independent

Turkey's last hope dies
Friday night’s failed coup was Turkey’s last hope to stop the Islamization of its government and the degradation of its society. Reflexively, Western leaders rushed to condemn a coup attempt they refused to understand. Their reward will be a toxic Islamist regime at the gates of Europe.

Our leaders no longer do their basic homework.The media relies on experts-by-Wikipedia. Except for PC platitudes, our schools ignore the world beyond our shores. Deluged with unreliable information, citizens succumb to the new superstitions of the digital age.

So a great country is destroyed by Islamist hardliners before our eyes—and our president praises its “democracy.”

That tragically failed coup was a forlorn hope, not an attempt to take over a country. Turkey is not a banana republic in which the military grasps the reins for its own profit. For almost a century, the Turkish armed forces have been the guardians of the country’s secular constitution. Most recently, coups in 1960, 1971 and 1980 (with “non-coup” pressure in 1997) saw the military intervene to prevent the country’s collapse.

Each time, the military returned the government to civilian rule as soon as that proved practical. My own first experience of Turkey came just before the 1980 coup. Turkey was broke and broken. The economy was in such a shambles that you could not buy a cup of Turkish coffee in Istanbul. I walked because taxis and public transportation had no fuel. Murderous political violence raged. Reluctantly, the generals stepped in and saved their country.

Friday night, mid-grade officers led a desperate effort to rescue their country again. They failed. The West cheered. Soon enough, we’ll mourn.

The coup leaders made disastrous mistakes, the worst of which was to imagine that the absence of President Erdogan from Ankara, the capital, presented the perfect opportunity. Wrong. In a coup, the key is to seize the leaders you mean to overthrow (as well as control of the media). Instead of fleeing into exile, Erdogan was able to return in triumph.

So who is the man our own president rushed to support because he was “democratically elected?” Recep Tayyip Erdogan is openly Islamist and affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood, which President Obama appears to believe represents the best hope for the Middle East. But the difference between ISIS, Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood isn’t one of purpose, but merely of manners: Muslim Brothers wash the blood off their hands before they sit down to dinner with their dupes.

With barely a murmured “Tut-tut!” from Western leaders, Erdogan has dismantled Turkey’s secular constitution (which the military is duty-bound to protect). His “democracy” resembles Putin’s, not ours. Key opposition figures have been driven into exile or banned. Opposition parties have been suppressed. Recent elections have not been held so much as staged. And Erdogan has torn the fresh scab from the Kurdish wound, fostering civil war in Turkey’s southeast for his own political advantage.

Erdogan has packed Turkey’s courts with Islamists. He appointed pliant, pro-Islamist generals and admirals, while staging show trials of those of whom he wished to rid the country. He has de facto, if not yet de jure, curtailed women’s freedoms. He dissolved the wall between mosque and state (Friday night, he used mosques’ loudspeakers to call his supporters into the streets). Not least, he had long allowed foreign fighters to transit Turkey to join ISIS and has aggressively backed other extremists whom he believed he could manage.

And the leaders of the ill-fated coup? What did they stand for? Mustafa Kemal Ataturk’s legacy and a secular constitution. One of the great men of the last century, Ataturk (an innovative general by background) pulled Turkey from the wreckage of World War One, abolished the caliphate, suppressed fanatical religious orders, gave women legal rights and social protections, banned the veil, promoted secular education for all citizens of Turkey, strongly advocated Westernization and modernization…and promoted a democratic future.

The officers who led the collapsed coup stood for all those things. President Obama and Secretary of State Kerry opposed them.

By Saturday morning, it was clear that the mullahs and mobs behind Erdogan had won. Erdogan will use the coup as an excuse to accelerate the Islamization of his country and to lead Turkey deeper into the darkness engulfing the Muslim world. His vision is one of a neo-Ottoman megalomaniac.

NATO, which operates by consensus, will find itself embracing a poisonous snake. New crises will reawaken old fears in southeastern Europe, which western European states will dismiss condescendingly, further crippling the badly limping European Union. Syria will continue to bleed. And educated, secular Turks will find themselves in a situation like unto that of German liberals in the 1930s. We may see new and unexpected wars.

A desperate, ill-planned coup has failed in Turkey. Here comes the darkness.

FOX News

Matau, kad forume yra tokiu, kurie smerku ir perversma Siaures Korejoj

[senasnamas]

Sulaikyti kariskiai verciami ziureti i sultono nuotrauka

"Pedagogika" tai absoliučiai korėjietiška .

[Lettered]

Sulaikyti kariskiai verciami ziureti i sultono nuotrauka:
Atvaizdas

Matau, kad forume yra tokiu, kurie smerku ir perversma Siaures Korejoj

Lietuvoje tikrai smerktume karinį persversmą, kad ir kokia nevykus būtų išrinkta valdžia, Š. Korėjoje nieko prieš, nes ten renkamos valdžios vis tiek nėra.

[senasnamas]

Lietuvoje tikrai smerktume karinį persversmą, kad ir kokia nevykus būtų išrinkta valdžia

Kaip pagrindinė žiniasklaida rašytų, tokia nuomonė ir vyrautų . Vakarai su Erdoganu šį tą sutaria, Turkija svarbi žaidėja, tai Erdoganas palaikomas. Jei sutarti neišeitų ir iš Erdogano nebūtų jokios naudos, tada Erdogano priešininkai taptų "taikiais demokratiškais sukilėliais" .

[ViR2]

civilizuotoj salyj karinis perversmas yra blogai, bet siulau pasiskaityt Rabinoviciaus blogo irasa, ten labai puikiai paaiskina, kas yra Turkijos perversmai ir kam atsako kariuomene

Paskutiniai rinkimai Turkijoj nebuvo nei demokratiski nei nepriklausomi. Jau net nekalbu apie isjungineta elektra, policijos uzkardas, kad sustabdytu rinkejus patekti prie balsadeziu ir t.t. Putkino stilium rytinese provincijose rinko 120% aktyvuma, o kurdu Diyarbakir AKP surinko absoliucia dauguma, kas manau ir putkiniui sukeltu juoka, kai kurdai balsuoja uz AKP islamistus, uz savo didziausia priesa ir siauba

[John]

Lietuvoje tikrai smerktume karinį persversmą, kad ir kokia nevykus būtų išrinkta valdžia, Š. Korėjoje nieko prieš, nes ten renkamos valdžios vis tiek nėra.

Čia turbūt labiau ne valdžios renkamumo, bet kompetencijos klausimas. Jei valdžia nekompetentinga ir perversmininkai (kariuomenė) savo gretose turi normalių žmonių, tai ok. Egipto atvejis tą gerai iliustruoja. Ir Tailando (ypač). Turkijos atveju perversmas irgi turbūt būtų davęs teigiamą rezultatą.

[J.U.]

Lietuvoje Smetonos perversmas faktiškai išgelbėjo šalį nuo komunizmo. Jei ne tas perversmas, nebūtų 20-ties metų "aksominės" diktatūros, sulaikiusios šalį nuo bolševikų įsigalėjimo ir nebūtų tarpukario patriotiškai išauklėtos kartos. Lietuva būtų visai ne ta šalis kokią dabar turime. Taigi, ne visi perversmai yra blogis.

[Aleksio]

Lietuvoje Smetonos perversmas faktiškai išgelbėjo šalį nuo komunizmo. Jei ne tas perversmas, nebūtų 20-ties metų "aksominės" diktatūros, sulaikiusios šalį nuo bolševikų įsigalėjimo ir nebūtų tarpukario patriotiškai išauklėtos kartos. Lietuva būtų visai ne ta šalis kokią dabar turime. Taigi, ne visi perversmai yra blogis.

Dar galima prisiminti Franko ir Pinočeto perversmus.

[ViR2]

Daugiau vaizdu:





Kariskiu kunai, po to, kai islamistai uzeme Ankaros staba:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cnkg7wzXYAAOjT1.jpg

Generolai + vienas admirolas. Atkreipkit demesi i kankinimo zymes:


Akin Ozturk Air Force General (sukilimo vadas)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cnk6MioWcAQMwm8.jpg

Grey wolfs irgi prisidejo prie kariskiu zudymo:


Dziaugsminga minia su Allahu Ekbar klyksmais:



NATO Incirlik bazes vadas buvo irgi suimtas kartu su pilotais:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnjuBxEWcAQK5A-.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnjuEmlWgAATd-8.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnjuF3YWAAE4gKo.jpg

Vienas is Erdogano gelbetoju:
Dalyvauja gelbejime:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cni-OR_W8AAyTIl.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cni-OV_XEAE4Xwq.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cni-OTjW8AAUFVN.jpg

Ir tas pats gelbetojas gelbeja Sirijos Latakia nuo civiliu ir kufaru:

[Galis]

emocijos kiek atvėso, buvo laiko įvykiams susidėlioti, tad noriu paklausti, tų kurie domisi giliau šiuo perversmu: kuri versija šiuo metu realesnė: kad tai buvo organizuota paties erdogano ar vis dėl to kariškių?

[Globalus]

Turkija per penkmetį tapo tikra šiknaskyle Nice job

[Tomas]

Ar teisingai suprantu, kad Ozturkui nupjauta ausis?

[Lettered]

emocijos kiek atvėso, buvo laiko įvykiams susidėlioti, tad noriu paklausti, tų kurie domisi giliau šiuo perversmu: kuri versija šiuo metu realesnė: kad tai buvo organizuota paties erdogano ar vis dėl to kariškių?

Gal dar kažkas prikišo nagus už Turkijos ribų? Kam Erdoganas yra didžiausia rakštis?

[J.U.]

emocijos kiek atvėso, buvo laiko įvykiams susidėlioti, tad noriu paklausti, tų kurie domisi giliau šiuo perversmu: kuri versija šiuo metu realesnė: kad tai buvo organizuota paties erdogano ar vis dėl to kariškių?

Viskas paprasta kaip dvi kapeikos - Erdoganas nori būti turkišku Putinu. Žinoma, visokie obamos ir merkelienės to arba nesugeba suvokti, arba apsimeta. Sveikina "sąjungininką" įveikus pučą. O kad sąjungininkas elgiasi kaip žvėris, nesvarbu, nusispjauti į visokias žmogaus teises. Va, kad Lietuvoje kaliniai neturi pakankamo komforto triūbija per visus galus.
Tai, kad staigiai suimta tūkstančiai kažkuo neįtikusių teisėjų, reiškia kad tam buvo rimtai ruošiamasi, sudaryti sąrašai ir akcija staigiai įvykdyta. Erdogano užtarėjams vakaruose tai labai stipriai atsirūgs, nėra jokių abejonių.